Opninions on speed of development and vaporware speculation
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IIT0NE
Rank 13
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:58 am Posts: 115
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I think Pogmothoin nailed it there.
Riftporn, all your points are valid but I'm afraid I do understand the complexity, depth and scope of this project. I understand the effort, skill, level of work and near open-ended time-frame surrounding it and, as I mentioned before, I understand that the X Moon Productions team/project manager/one-man-band or whoever's behind it, will be working hard to get this finished in a manner that suits them. That's fine, we just want proof and reassurance that something's actually happening, which is not much to ask. No, he/she/they don't owe us anything and no, we don't owe him/her/them anything, either.
Also - No, I don't think money is the driving factor behind XPAdmin's motivations - I've worked with some very talented people on plenty of large-scale, slow-burn projects for hundreds of clients (some of them develop nothing but 3D physics-based software engines and environments. Some of these projects are very large scale, they're still ongoing and have been for over 5 years now. Yet, I've made sure that the people working on those projects not only share my motivation for doing so (the love of doing it and the sheer experience and learning curve), they're also good communicators and can keep me up to speed on a weekly basis. Consumers just want a little bit of proof that work is happening. In the design world, a proof is called a proof for this very reason (as well as proving that it works well or looks good before moving on to subsequent project milestones).
The title of this thread suggests there is speculation that this project could be vaporware. I'm of the faithful opinion that it isn't, but there's also no evidence to suggest that it isn't. I hope it isn't and I'd like to think that the developer(s?) are savvy enough to call-in the right talent to make sure this project gets finished. But, as I said before - he/she/they don't owe us anything and we don't owe him/her/them anything. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, we'll just be very disappointed - but, it won't be the end of the world, it's a first world problem at most.
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Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:04 pm |
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guymanyo
Rank 9
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:12 pm Posts: 49
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IIT0NE wrote: Well, if you noticed the "salty" comment "I realize you're making a new engine from the ground up...", then you'll see that I'm debating openly, frankly and with the best interests of the team and consumers in mind. Whereas your comment "Even when it's some dumb porn game" shows me that you sir, are the one who in fact has little empathy, if any at all.
"Best intentions", like my shiny, perfect, virgin vagina. You barely actually understood or chose not to actually see what was said and meant by the devs and added your own meaning in practically every point you tried to make. You aren't making a solid case or avoiding fallacy very well in your side of this "Debate". And then you try and turn what I said around on me, and way to fall for hyperbole... gr8 deb8 m8. Do you think I'd bother with this if I really thought that it was dumb. Empathy isn't a factor and I think you confuse apathy with subjective critique. Then again, it is just some dumb porn game *wink*. It's like Minecraft is just a dumb block building game. (I mean it was when it first started as a free web game) It probably will take very long for it to have the depth required for it to be otherwise. I think you might be impatient... Quote: I've only paid one subscription for this franchise and, as slow as progress has been (and yes, that irks me) I still think it's a great project! There are very few developers out there who dare to make this kind of thing and they have my respect.
As an Art Director, Senior Graphic Designer (successfully freelancing for 20 years) and as a Marketing Director for multiple high end brands, corporate organizations and independent businesses, publishers and media developers - I'm not 100% percent sure, but I think I might just have a tiny, nagging feeling that I kinda sorta know what I'm talking about. *shrug*.
I paid like, $10 or $20, for both version 2 and 3. What subscription are you talking about? Are you saying you've paid once like me? That isn't a subscription. Also, have you tried buying an early access game before? Half of the games I play are early access and have been in development for years. Some are better than others but they still end up being worth more than I pay for. Some have been in development for years longer and this particular project isn't any different and I don't have to pay more for them after my initial purchase. Granted, I will have to pay for 4.0 if I want it. But I haven't paid anything yet and I didn't feel like it was investment worthy during crowd funding. It must not take much to irk you. Now I know you are impatient. Subjectively... You are so full of yourself it's coming out of your best intentions hole. I don't care what a person says they are or how successful they start claiming they are. That kind of statement has no validity unless you come into the argument with that experience and knowledge known and proven to people you are talking to in the first place. If I thought you were some authority on the matter of game development I'd consider it. Art Direction, Design, and Marketing are parts of it but nothing that gives you authority on the actual development cycle of a Game Engine. Again, apples and oranges. Not how to solve issues with multiple physics systems working together, not how to code shaders and make textures look good on a 3D model (among a shit ton of other things). Maybe you can make textures and models, supervise others as to how to do so, then when the game is done you can market it to the public. I'll give you that much. Maybe you are as good as you say but you still sound like you only understand a small portion of the whole picture. It's a case of Money and Mouth location. Quote: Thanks for stopping by. No problem. My advice is to go away for six months and come back. If the game isn't done, repeat. Stop trying to act like it's so important. Unless you are an investor who takes issue with a high dollar investment, just let the devs dev and chill. Just my subjective advice.
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Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:50 am |
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IIT0NE
Rank 13
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:58 am Posts: 115
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Quote: "Best intentions", like my shiny, perfect, virgin vagina. You barely actually understood or chose not to actually see what was said and meant by the devs and added your own meaning in practically every point you tried to make. You aren't making a solid case or avoiding fallacy very well in your side of this "Debate". And then you try and turn what I said around on me, and way to fall for hyperbole... gr8 deb8 m8. Do you think I'd bother with this if I really thought that it was dumb. Empathy isn't a factor and I think you confuse apathy with subjective critique. Then again, it is just some dumb porn game *wink*. It's like Minecraft is just a dumb block building game. (I mean it was when it first started as a free web game) It probably will take very long for it to have the depth required for it to be otherwise. I think you might be impatient...
I paid like, $10 or $20, for both version 2 and 3. What subscription are you talking about? Are you saying you've paid once like me? That isn't a subscription. Also, have you tried buying an early access game before? Half of the games I play are early access and have been in development for years. Some are better than others but they still end up being worth more than I pay for. Some have been in development for years longer and this particular project isn't any different and I don't have to pay more for them after my initial purchase. Granted, I will have to pay for 4.0 if I want it. But I haven't paid anything yet and I didn't feel like it was investment worthy during crowd funding. It must not take much to irk you. Now I know you are impatient. Subjectively...
You are so full of yourself it's coming out of your best intentions hole. I don't care what a person says they are or how successful they start claiming they are. That kind of statement has no validity unless you come into the argument with that experience and knowledge known and proven to people you are talking to in the first place. If I thought you were some authority on the matter of game development I'd consider it. Art Direction, Design, and Marketing are parts of it but nothing that gives you authority on the actual development cycle of a Game Engine. Again, apples and oranges. Not how to solve issues with multiple physics systems working together, not how to code shaders and make textures look good on a 3D model (among a shit ton of other things).
Maybe you can make textures and models, supervise others as to how to do so, then when the game is done you can market it to the public. I'll give you that much. Maybe you are as good as you say but you still sound like you only understand a small portion of the whole picture. It's a case of Money and Mouth location.
No problem.
My advice is to go away for six months and come back. If the game isn't done, repeat. Stop trying to act like it's so important. Unless you are an investor who takes issue with a high dollar investment, just let the devs dev and chill. Just my subjective advice. • You're right - I am a little impatient. Like you, I paid once (subscription was the wrong choice of word) for 3.5. • If empathy wasn't a factor, why did you say I had none? • I'm not here to make a solid case, I'm merely speculating that this thing might not be happening (where's the proof?). • I never claimed to be an authority on the development cycle of a Game Engine. I've just worked with lots of people who make them and know that regular proofs help dispel negative rumors. • I'm not entirely sure what your vagina has to do with it, shiny, virgin or otherwise. • I'm not here to argue and I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone. I'm just looking for proof that this game's being made.
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Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:20 am |
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guymanyo
Rank 9
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:12 pm Posts: 49
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IIT0NE wrote: • If empathy wasn't a factor, why did you say I had none?
I'd apologize for saying you had no empathy, if I had ever said that. Which I didn't. Read again. I'm being dead serious saying this... do you just not pay attention to what people say or do you deliberately take stuff out of context on purpose just to work in your negative feelings toward the devs? You totally did that with xspad min too. Since you may have just missed the context somehow I will point it out: My simple critique has nothing to do with emp athy, it's just an opinion. It does have something to do when you are making a suggestion about how people run their business without knowing how that business is run in the first place. Or I guess it's ok to read into things. One might say, if they read their own words into your reply to xspadmin, that you accused them of not being interested in their work. When they clearly said that posting information on technical aspects was probably only interesting to programmers. Oh, but you did pretty much do exactly that without reading anything into it. Did you just not read it well or are you trying to find a way to make it seem like what it isn't on purpose? The main reason I question your know ledge is the second point... where you clear ly don't understand what is meant by basic stuff. Basic stuff is not general for easy things. It's what a normal engine would have to go through. You have no idea how long the basic stuff takes. You, saying "I realize you're making a new engine from the ground up..." c ame across like you going to a pizza joint saying, "I know it'll take time to make a pepperoni pizza, but I want it in a fraction of that time." You acte d like you knew exactly how long it should be taking to do something and misread the context of " Basic". You did this a few times where you eithe r were not paying attention to what was said very well or purposefully trying to p oison the well. I wouldn't be so mad bro if I didn't have this feeling you were being insincere.
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Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:06 pm |
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riftporn
Rank 16
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:51 pm Posts: 314
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Quote: Riftporn, all your points are valid but I'm afraid I do understand the complexity, depth and scope of this project. I understand the effort, skill, level of work and near open-ended time-frame surrounding it and, as I mentioned before, I understand that the X Moon Productions team/project manager/one-man-band or whoever's behind it, will be working hard to get this finished in a manner that suits them. That's fine, we just want proof and reassurance that something's actually happening, which is not much to ask. No, he/she/they don't owe us anything and no, we don't owe him/her/them anything, either.
Also - No, I don't think money is the driving factor behind XPAdmin's motivations - I've worked with some very talented people on plenty of large-scale, slow-burn projects for hundreds of clients (some of them develop nothing but 3D physics-based software engines and environments. Some of these projects are very large scale, they're still ongoing and have been for over 5 years now. Yet, I've made sure that the people working on those projects not only share my motivation for doing so (the love of doing it and the sheer experience and learning curve), they're also good communicators and can keep me up to speed on a weekly basis. Consumers just want a little bit of proof that work is happening. In the design world, a proof is called a proof for this very reason (as well as proving that it works well or looks good before moving on to subsequent project milestones). Well then combine your knowledge about the complexity with the thought that money probably isn't the driving factor and you will have to admit that there is zero obligation or economic cause for XPAdmin to keep us entertained or in the loop. I would like to have assurance too, and updates, and screenshots, and release dates, and preorder offers. I'd really like to have all those things. But somewhere along the way they drove back their communications to a bare minimum, and I doubt a dozen vapor ware speculation threads will change that. Be sincere, if XPAdmin doesn't say a word until 2018 and then announces v4 for 100$, you'd buy it - I know I would. And if that happens think about the hundreds of hours that went into coding which would have been wasted on these forums instead, had he updated us weekly ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
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Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:01 pm |
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Elfseeker
Rank 13
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:58 pm Posts: 115
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a picture, a few words, some noise like that. that's all the 'update' I'd need from a one-man operation.
I'd need no 'devblog' or suchlike groups like revelation pulled. That requires manpower to do right without loosing programming hours.
But yeah. If he gave us nothing until he posted about the release of V4...I'd probably be around to notice, and buy it. but I'd just as likely have long since forgotten about this thing entirely. y'know, in the event I should happen to get a life one of these months.
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Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:31 am |
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joe
Rank 5
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:29 pm Posts: 20
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you get this in pretty much every game in the world in "recent" history.
Whatever the stage of development of the game, whether it's adult game or not, if it's before release, you will most often find a group of people who are and/or who feel "invested" in the game and it's development. Even if they are only customers who spam the forums during beta stages.
That group of people will basically read every post on the forums any article related to the project, sometimes even the profiles of forum posters, maybe even research the "in real life" of the devs, very often reach out to the devs, or the mods, and try to establish some kind of relationship.
They feel "included" with the project, they feel like they are part of it, like they know the devs and are on the same team, like some kind of initiate with a privileged status.
And for every single post on a forum that does not comply to a certain series of ideals and principles, where those principles are determined by the members of the project and not themselves, they will fight tooth and nail, writing huge walls of text, to "defend" the honour of the devs, the mods, and to make sure they do their part in "supporting" it while at the same time, consolidating their identity of being special, because part of something most people aren't.
It would be quite funny if it weren't a little tragic, for reasons I won't go into now, (though I could state that I have seen happen when the devs "listen" to those people and start believing their game is perfect and they are doing everything righ rather than facing the honest and sometimes dis-respectful but true critiques of others) and I could have saved anyone who's read this post this far some time simply by writing one sentence, but this was more fun!
Anyway, that sentence, in short, you get fanboys (and girls) for every game and if there's something of value and of fundamental importance that I have learned in life, is that there really is no point trying to be rational with those people.
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Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:42 pm |
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john_0815
Rank 8
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:24 pm Posts: 38
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riftporn wrote: Be sincere, if XPAdmin doesn't say a word until 2018 and then announces v4 for 100$, you'd buy it - I know I would. Nobody would notice, as simple as that. Because frankly, only a very tiny minority of former customers will hang around here for years monitoring 'silence'... so yea, some very minimum basic level of communication would be very much appreciated.
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Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:30 pm |
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chad123
Rank 3
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:29 pm Posts: 6
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Maybe if XPAdmin could throw up the odd screenshot of a new model from time to time (like he did with the new materials etc), even if it was only once every 3 months, it would keep some peoples' hopes and reassurances alive.
I personally don't mind waiting "until its done", but I do understand and respect that its everyone's personal preference on such things.
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Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:55 am |
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tomahawk308
Rank 18
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:46 pm Posts: 1094
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to keep xstoryplayer special with special possibility and in the long run it make more sense to have an own engine
its better to invest more time to make a good game rather rush it and in the end that is full of bugs so let them (developers) time to make the game (its done when its done)
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Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:43 pm |
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